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Re: [cowiki-issues] [Issue 14] (52) Get away from "table layout"

Author lostwong
Full name Kenneth Wong
Date 2005-08-03 07:59:52 PDT
Message I think it's a great idea... even without full compliance. It'd be even
cooler if each plugin template was surrounded by a div tag with an id="name
of plugin template".

One of the reasons why I like this scheme is that it gives the creator of
the template an enormous amount of control over how the site will look...
and with each plugin separated into their own <div>, the template creator
can customize the look of each plugin that they use on their site. And if
they don't customize, the plugin templates will inherit formatting from
their parent...

Take a look at http://wiki.fringecode.com. I've started a new template
called "gila" based off a design of the same name found at
http://www.oswd.org. I've left the default template as is but you can switch
to gila to take a look at what's been done. I haven't gone as far as
surrounding each plugin template with <div> tags... but I'll get around to
it eventually...

On 8/3/05, Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com> wrote:
>
> In theory, we should be able to create a document that separates content
> into layout groups, then provide CSS to put the group where we want it on
> the screen. Within a layout group we should event be able to have
> sub-layouts. Of course what can really be done will be limited by Internet
> Explorer because no only is it not fully compliant, it is actually broken in
> several cases. :-(
>
> I've attached an example. It was originally done with pure CSS, and it's
> still driven by CSS but the programming is needed to set formatting for
> selectors that IE is too stoopid to detect.
>
> Paul
>
> John (yt) Hogenmiller wrote:
>
> On 8/2/05, Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com> <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com> wrote:
>
> Cool, that will be fun! Is this the sort of thing you're trying to do?
>
> http://css.maxdesign​.com.au/listamatic/v​ertical08.htm
>
> According to the "Salmon" book, links have pseudo-class selectors of :link
> and :visited. Looks like everything has :focus, :hover, and :active.
>
>
> I'll be interested to see what you have. I got rather daunted when i
> realized that I really needed to restructure the entire page generation for
> coWiki. I could do it following the current structure, but I lost a lot of
>
> the power of CSS doing it that way.
>
> The ":hover" is my next step I think. There is a lot of javascript
> that handles what :hover should do on its own. However, I don't know
> yet how "backwards-compatible" :hover and :focus are. I have focused
>
> primarily on the colors, and next I will be focusing on pixel widths
> and the like. I have pretty much recreated the default theme under
> css. What I'm aiming for is to make a trivial matter to make a css
> file that matches each of the existing themes (spitsbergen, sahara,
>
> curare...). My vision is that of a "Generic" theme with multiple css
> files to choose from.
>
> While that might not make it into the next release of coWiki, it will
> probably make it into my setup. ;} Of course, my dream setup that I'm
>
> cobbling together will be very non-standard... I'm scratching out
> designs for a subversion browser plugin and a "live chat" plugin.
>
> -John
>
>
> Hello, this is a test. Hello, this is a test. Hello, this is a test.
> Hello, this is a test. Hello, this is a test. Hello, this is a test.
> Hello, this is a test. Hello, this is a test. Hello, this is a test.
>
>


--
Kenneth Wong
Switching from Oddpost to Gmail as of July 29th, 2005
New e-mail address: lostwong at gmail dot com
Attachments

Re: [cowiki-issues] [Issue 14] (52) Get away from "table layout"

Author dgorski
Full name Daniel T. Gorski
Date 2005-08-03 00:08:13 PDT
Message On 02 Aug 21:43, Paul Hanchett wrote:

> In theory, we should be able to create a document that separates content
> into layout groups, then provide CSS to put the group where we want it
> on the screen. [...]

> <script type="text/javascript">

What is the heading as the coWiki code still says:

  // Never use JavaScript for essential functionalities! You may use it
  // for uncritical and superfluous gimmicks.

JavaScript would make the interface feel better for the user, but will be
**extremly fragile** due to browser version changes - and the supported
ECMA/JavaScript versions.

This is one of the points you can trust me, as I wrote JavasSript //magic//
in the end 90ies for intranets, that I until now didn't come across in
access-for-all WWW. Today, it's not only the JavaScript, but the DOM (if
available) handling. But if you have one who can care of it 24/7 ...

My POV is, JavaScript for companies intranets: yes. For a software like
coWiki that should be - in an extreme case - usable on a PDA: No.

regards dtg

Re: [cowiki-issues] [Issue 14] (52) Get away from "table layout"

Author Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com>
Full name Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com>
Date 2005-08-02 21:43:26 PDT
Message In theory, we should be able to create a document that separates content
into layout groups, then provide CSS to put the group where we want it
on the screen. Within a layout group we should event be able to have
sub-layouts. Of course what can really be done will be limited by
Internet Explorer because no only is it not fully compliant, it is
actually broken in several cases. :-(

I've attached an example. It was originally done with pure CSS, and
it's still driven by CSS but the programming is needed to set formatting
for selectors that IE is too stoopid to detect.

Paul

John (yt) Hogenmiller wrote:

>On 8/2/05, Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com> wrote:
>
>
>>Cool, that will be fun! Is this the sort of thing you're trying to do?
>>http://css.maxdesign​.com.au/listamatic/v​ertical08.htm
>>
>> According to the "Salmon" book, links have pseudo-class selectors of :link
>>and :visited. Looks like everything has :focus, :hover, and :active.
>>
>> I'll be interested to see what you have. I got rather daunted when i
>>realized that I really needed to restructure the entire page generation for
>>coWiki. I could do it following the current structure, but I lost a lot of
>>the power of CSS doing it that way.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>The ":hover" is my next step I think. There is a lot of javascript
>that handles what :hover should do on its own. However, I don't know
>yet how "backwards-compatible" :hover and :focus are. I have focused
>primarily on the colors, and next I will be focusing on pixel widths
>and the like. I have pretty much recreated the default theme under
>css. What I'm aiming for is to make a trivial matter to make a css
>file that matches each of the existing themes (spitsbergen, sahara,
>curare...). My vision is that of a "Generic" theme with multiple css
>files to choose from.
>
>While that might not make it into the next release of coWiki, it will
>probably make it into my setup. ;} Of course, my dream setup that I'm
>cobbling together will be very non-standard... I'm scratching out
>designs for a subversion browser plugin and a "live chat" plugin.
>
>-John
>
>
>
Attachments

Re: [cowiki-issues] [Issue 14] (52) Get away from "table layout"

Author ytjohn
Full name John Hogenmiller
Date 2005-08-02 21:32:02 PDT
Message On 8/2/05, Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com> wrote:
> Did I ever post what I *did* have as far as CSS went?
>

No.

And after talking this over with someone, when you say "what I *did*
have"... does that mean it has since gone away? Did a dog eat your
homework?

Re: [cowiki-issues] [Issue 14] (52) Get away from "table layout"

Author ytjohn
Full name John Hogenmiller
Date 2005-08-02 21:29:07 PDT
Message On 8/2/05, Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com> wrote:
> Cool, that will be fun! Is this the sort of thing you're trying to do?
> http://css.maxdesign​.com.au/listamatic/v​ertical08.htm
>
> According to the "Salmon" book, links have pseudo-class selectors of :link
> and :visited. Looks like everything has :focus, :hover, and :active.
>
> I'll be interested to see what you have. I got rather daunted when i
> realized that I really needed to restructure the entire page generation for
> coWiki. I could do it following the current structure, but I lost a lot of
> the power of CSS doing it that way.
>


The ":hover" is my next step I think. There is a lot of javascript
that handles what :hover should do on its own. However, I don't know
yet how "backwards-compatible" :hover and :focus are. I have focused
primarily on the colors, and next I will be focusing on pixel widths
and the like. I have pretty much recreated the default theme under
css. What I'm aiming for is to make a trivial matter to make a css
file that matches each of the existing themes (spitsbergen, sahara,
curare...). My vision is that of a "Generic" theme with multiple css
files to choose from.

While that might not make it into the next release of coWiki, it will
probably make it into my setup. ;} Of course, my dream setup that I'm
cobbling together will be very non-standard... I'm scratching out
designs for a subversion browser plugin and a "live chat" plugin.

-John

Re: [cowiki-issues] [Issue 14] (52) Get away from "table layout"

Author Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com>
Full name Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com>
Date 2005-08-02 20:56:16 PDT
Message Did I ever post what I *did* have as far as CSS went?

On 8/2/05, Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com> wrote:
>
> Cool, that will be fun! Is this the sort of thing you're trying to do? http://css.maxdesign​.com.au/listamatic/v​ertical08.htm
>
>
> According to the "Salmon" book, links have pseudo-class selectors of :link
> and :visited. Looks like everything has :focus, :hover, and :active.
>
> I'll be interested to see what you have. I got rather daunted when i
> realized that I really needed to restructure the entire page generation for
> coWiki. I could do it following the current structure, but I lost a lot of
> the power of CSS doing it that way.
>
> On 8/2/05, John (yt) Hogenmiller <ytjohn at gmail dot com> wrote:
> >
> > On 7/28/05, Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com> wrote:
> > > I've been looking at this. The biggest problem I see is that there is
> > a
> > > *lot* of stuff to convert. Generally speaking, all of our formatting
> > is
> > > done with the template files in the TPL directory. Plugins should
> > *not*
> > > be generating their own HTML except by using a template themselves.
> > >
> > > I have a start of coWiki using CSS. It's rather a pleasure to work
> > with
> > > because the HTML is simpler but I'm not yet enough of a CSS guru to
> > lay
> > > stuff out without constantly rechecking my work. :-)
> >
> >
> > I came across this today.. I have been working on a template theme
> > that uses css almost completely. I have eliminated the COLOR section
> > of the tpl.conf. The issue I haven't figured out yet is handling the
> > js that deals with mouseover (mout/mover). I could putt the color
> > stuff back into the tpl.conf, but that's a step backwards from what
> > I'm trying to accomplish.
> >
> > I think I can finish this up here in a few days. I'm trying to get it
> > done tonight, but the wee hours are taking their toll. I'll keep you
> > posted.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Paul Hanchett
> <hr/>
> mailto://paul.hanche​tt at gmail dot com <//paul.hanchett@​gmail.com>
>



--
Paul Hanchett
<hr/>
mailto://paul.hanche​tt at gmail dot com <//paul.hanchett@​gmail.com>
Attachments

Re: [cowiki-issues] [Issue 14] (52) Get away from "table layout"

Author Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com>
Full name Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com>
Date 2005-08-02 20:51:26 PDT
Message Cool, that will be fun! Is this the sort of thing you're trying to do?
http://css.maxdesign​.com.au/listamatic/v​ertical08.htm


According to the "Salmon" book, links have pseudo-class selectors of :link
and :visited. Looks like everything has :focus, :hover, and :active.

I'll be interested to see what you have. I got rather daunted when i
realized that I really needed to restructure the entire page generation for
coWiki. I could do it following the current structure, but I lost a lot of
the power of CSS doing it that way.

On 8/2/05, John (yt) Hogenmiller <ytjohn at gmail dot com> wrote:
>
> On 7/28/05, Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com> wrote:
> > I've been looking at this. The biggest problem I see is that there is a
> > *lot* of stuff to convert. Generally speaking, all of our formatting is
> > done with the template files in the TPL directory. Plugins should *not*
> > be generating their own HTML except by using a template themselves.
> >
> > I have a start of coWiki using CSS. It's rather a pleasure to work with
> > because the HTML is simpler but I'm not yet enough of a CSS guru to lay
> > stuff out without constantly rechecking my work. :-)
>
>
> I came across this today.. I have been working on a template theme
> that uses css almost completely. I have eliminated the COLOR section
> of the tpl.conf. The issue I haven't figured out yet is handling the
> js that deals with mouseover (mout/mover). I could putt the color
> stuff back into the tpl.conf, but that's a step backwards from what
> I'm trying to accomplish.
>
> I think I can finish this up here in a few days. I'm trying to get it
> done tonight, but the wee hours are taking their toll. I'll keep you
> posted.
>



--
Paul Hanchett
<hr/>
mailto://paul.hanche​tt at gmail dot com <//paul.hanchett@​gmail.com>
Attachments

Re: [cowiki-issues] [Issue 14] (52) Get away from "table layout"

Author ytjohn
Full name John Hogenmiller
Date 2005-08-02 20:33:07 PDT
Message On 7/28/05, Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com> wrote:
> I've been looking at this. The biggest problem I see is that there is a
> *lot* of stuff to convert. Generally speaking, all of our formatting is
> done with the template files in the TPL directory. Plugins should *not*
> be generating their own HTML except by using a template themselves.
>
> I have a start of coWiki using CSS. It's rather a pleasure to work with
> because the HTML is simpler but I'm not yet enough of a CSS guru to lay
> stuff out without constantly rechecking my work. :-)


I came across this today.. I have been working on a template theme
that uses css almost completely. I have eliminated the COLOR section
of the tpl.conf. The issue I haven't figured out yet is handling the
js that deals with mouseover (mout/mover). I could putt the color
stuff back into the tpl.conf, but that's a step backwards from what
I'm trying to accomplish.

I think I can finish this up here in a few days. I'm trying to get it
done tonight, but the wee hours are taking their toll. I'll keep you
posted.

Re: [cowiki-issues] [Issue 14] (52) Get away from "table layout"

Author Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com>
Full name Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com>
Date 2005-07-28 13:47:11 PDT
Message There is also a dev list: dev at cowiki dot tigris dot org. You need to be
subscribed to it to be able to post. <dev at cowiki dot tigris dot org>

Kenneth Wong wrote:

> Er... if that's the "user" mailing list, then yep, I'm there too.
> I'll make my next post over there when I've begun some of my tests
> into building a CSS oriented layout...
>
> Ken.
>
> On 7/28/05, *Paul Hanchett* <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com
> <mailto:paul.hanc​hett at gmail dot com>​> wrote:
>
> Ken,
>
> Are you subscribed to the dev list? That would be a better place
> to continue this discussion...
>
> Paul
>
>
> Kenneth Wong wrote:
>
>>There's definitely a lot of work involved but I think it's well worth
>>the effort. And to top it off, I wouldn't mind taking a stab at it.
>>:) Here were my initial thoughts...
>>
>>I'm wondering whether or not we can reduce the number of template
>>
>>files by using the <div> tags. The <div> tags would be used to
>>logically seperate page elements much like how the template files are
>>being used right now.
>>
>>Plug-ins would be responsible for spitting out HTML code surrounded by
>>
>>a div tag with a specific ID. The Layout of all the <div> tags would
>>be handled via a variety of CSS files (one for each different layout
>>on the website).
>>
>>I think my plan of attack would be:
>>(1) Generate a layout via CSS with a menu down the left hand side,
>>
>>main content on the right, a header and a footer.
>>(2) Modify the templates that control the header, menu, and footer to use CSS.
>>
>>I should be able to do that without modifying any of the core PHP code
>>that makes up co-wiki. If that works out alright, then I may try
>>
>>tackling a couple of plugins.
>>
>>With any luck, I'll be able to come up with some benchmarks in terms
>>of performance changes.
>>
>>Any chance I can take a look at your work with cowiki/css? :)
>>
>>Ken.
>>
>>oh, and I'm *not* a CSS Guru... just a guy with some knowledge and a
>>hankering to try to use some of it. :)
>>
>>On 7/28/05, Paul Hanchett
>><paul.han​chett at gmail dot com> <mailto:paul.hanc​hett at gmail dot com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I've been looking at this. The biggest problem I see is that there is a
>>>*lot* of stuff to convert. Generally speaking, all of our formatting is
>>>done with the template files in the TPL directory. Plugins should *not*
>>>
>>>be generating their own HTML except by using a template themselves.
>>>
>>>I have a start of coWiki using CSS. It's rather a pleasure to work with
>>>because the HTML is simpler but I'm not yet enough of a CSS guru to lay
>>>
>>>stuff out without constantly rechecking my work. :-)
>>>
>>>Paul
>>>
>>>lostwong at tigris dot org <mailto:lostwong@​tigris.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>http://cowiki.tigris​.org/issues/show_bug​.cgi?id=14
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>------- Additional comments from lostwong at tigris dot org <mailto:lostwong@​tigris.org> Thu Jul 28 09:25:08 -0700 2005 -------
>>>>Some possible benefits of using CSS:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>- graceful fallback to non-compliant/older-generation browsers
>>>>- should be easier to mantain cross-platform support
>>>>- possibly faster load times due to less code in the html and more of it in a
>>>>shared CSS stylesheet
>>>>
>>>>- make it easier to create third party themes/templates for the wiki
>>>>
>>>>I've noticed that there's html formatting code throughout a lot of the plugins
>>>>and templates. To make a fully themable system may require some re-working of
>>>>
>>>>how the templates and plugins are structured and how they interact.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Attachments

Re: [cowiki-issues] [Issue 14] (52) Get away from "table layout"

Author lostwong
Full name Kenneth Wong
Date 2005-07-28 13:06:56 PDT
Message Er... if that's the "user" mailing list, then yep, I'm there too. I'll make
my next post over there when I've begun some of my tests into building a CSS
oriented layout...

Ken.

On 7/28/05, Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com> wrote:
>
> Ken,
>
> Are you subscribed to the dev list? That would be a better place to
> continue this discussion...
>
> Paul
>
> Kenneth Wong wrote:
>
> There's definitely a lot of work involved but I think it's well worth
> the effort. And to top it off, I wouldn't mind taking a stab at it.
> :) Here were my initial thoughts...
>
> I'm wondering whether or not we can reduce the number of template
> files by using the <div> tags. The <div> tags would be used to
> logically seperate page elements much like how the template files are
> being used right now.
>
> Plug-ins would be responsible for spitting out HTML code surrounded by
> a div tag with a specific ID. The Layout of all the <div> tags would
> be handled via a variety of CSS files (one for each different layout
> on the website).
>
> I think my plan of attack would be:
> (1) Generate a layout via CSS with a menu down the left hand side,
> main content on the right, a header and a footer.
> (2) Modify the templates that control the header, menu, and footer to use CSS.
>
> I should be able to do that without modifying any of the core PHP code
> that makes up co-wiki. If that works out alright, then I may try
> tackling a couple of plugins.
>
> With any luck, I'll be able to come up with some benchmarks in terms
> of performance changes.
>
> Any chance I can take a look at your work with cowiki/css? :)
>
> Ken.
> oh, and I'm *not* a CSS Guru... just a guy with some knowledge and a
> hankering to try to use some of it. :)
>
> On 7/28/05, Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com> <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com> wrote:
>
> I've been looking at this. The biggest problem I see is that there is a
> *lot* of stuff to convert. Generally speaking, all of our formatting is
> done with the template files in the TPL directory. Plugins should *not*
> be generating their own HTML except by using a template themselves.
>
> I have a start of coWiki using CSS. It's rather a pleasure to work with
> because the HTML is simpler but I'm not yet enough of a CSS guru to lay
> stuff out without constantly rechecking my work. :-)
>
> Paul
>
> lostwong at tigris dot org wrote:
>
> http://cowiki.tigris​.org/issues/show_bug​.cgi?id=14
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------- Additional comments from lostwong at tigris dot org Thu Jul 28 09:25:08 -0700 2005 -------
> Some possible benefits of using CSS:
>
> - graceful fallback to non-compliant/older-generation browsers
> - should be easier to mantain cross-platform support
> - possibly faster load times due to less code in the html and more of it in a
> shared CSS stylesheet
> - make it easier to create third party themes/templates for the wiki
>
> I've noticed that there's html formatting code throughout a lot of the plugins
> and templates. To make a fully themable system may require some re-working of
> how the templates and plugins are structured and how they interact.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
Attachments

Re: [cowiki-issues] [Issue 14] (52) Get away from "table layout"

Author Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com>
Full name Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com>
Date 2005-07-28 11:40:06 PDT
Message Ken,

Are you subscribed to the dev list? That would be a better place to
continue this discussion...

Paul

Kenneth Wong wrote:

>There's definitely a lot of work involved but I think it's well worth
>the effort. And to top it off, I wouldn't mind taking a stab at it.
>:) Here were my initial thoughts...
>
>I'm wondering whether or not we can reduce the number of template
>files by using the <div> tags. The <div> tags would be used to
>logically seperate page elements much like how the template files are
>being used right now.
>
>Plug-ins would be responsible for spitting out HTML code surrounded by
>a div tag with a specific ID. The Layout of all the <div> tags would
>be handled via a variety of CSS files (one for each different layout
>on the website).
>
>I think my plan of attack would be:
>(1) Generate a layout via CSS with a menu down the left hand side,
>main content on the right, a header and a footer.
>(2) Modify the templates that control the header, menu, and footer to use CSS.
>
>I should be able to do that without modifying any of the core PHP code
>that makes up co-wiki. If that works out alright, then I may try
>tackling a couple of plugins.
>
>With any luck, I'll be able to come up with some benchmarks in terms
>of performance changes.
>
>Any chance I can take a look at your work with cowiki/css? :)
>
>Ken.
>oh, and I'm *not* a CSS Guru... just a guy with some knowledge and a
>hankering to try to use some of it. :)
>
>On 7/28/05, Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com> wrote:
>
>
>>I've been looking at this. The biggest problem I see is that there is a
>>*lot* of stuff to convert. Generally speaking, all of our formatting is
>>done with the template files in the TPL directory. Plugins should *not*
>>be generating their own HTML except by using a template themselves.
>>
>>I have a start of coWiki using CSS. It's rather a pleasure to work with
>>because the HTML is simpler but I'm not yet enough of a CSS guru to lay
>>stuff out without constantly rechecking my work. :-)
>>
>>Paul
>>
>>lostwong at tigris dot org wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>http://cowiki.tigris​.org/issues/show_bug​.cgi?id=14
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------- Additional comments from lostwong at tigris dot org Thu Jul 28 09:25:08 -0700 2005 -------
>>>Some possible benefits of using CSS:
>>>
>>>- graceful fallback to non-compliant/older-generation browsers
>>>- should be easier to mantain cross-platform support
>>>- possibly faster load times due to less code in the html and more of it in a
>>>shared CSS stylesheet
>>>- make it easier to create third party themes/templates for the wiki
>>>
>>>I've noticed that there's html formatting code throughout a lot of the plugins
>>>and templates. To make a fully themable system may require some re-working of
>>>how the templates and plugins are structured and how they interact.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
Attachments

Re: [cowiki-issues] [Issue 14] (52) Get away from "table layout"

Author lostwong
Full name Kenneth Wong
Date 2005-07-28 11:03:55 PDT
Message There's definitely a lot of work involved but I think it's well worth
the effort. And to top it off, I wouldn't mind taking a stab at it.
:) Here were my initial thoughts...

I'm wondering whether or not we can reduce the number of template
files by using the <div> tags. The <div> tags would be used to
logically seperate page elements much like how the template files are
being used right now.

Plug-ins would be responsible for spitting out HTML code surrounded by
a div tag with a specific ID. The Layout of all the <div> tags would
be handled via a variety of CSS files (one for each different layout
on the website).

I think my plan of attack would be:
(1) Generate a layout via CSS with a menu down the left hand side,
main content on the right, a header and a footer.
(2) Modify the templates that control the header, menu, and footer to use CSS.

I should be able to do that without modifying any of the core PHP code
that makes up co-wiki. If that works out alright, then I may try
tackling a couple of plugins.

With any luck, I'll be able to come up with some benchmarks in terms
of performance changes.

Any chance I can take a look at your work with cowiki/css? :)

Ken.
oh, and I'm *not* a CSS Guru... just a guy with some knowledge and a
hankering to try to use some of it. :)

On 7/28/05, Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com> wrote:
> I've been looking at this. The biggest problem I see is that there is a
> *lot* of stuff to convert. Generally speaking, all of our formatting is
> done with the template files in the TPL directory. Plugins should *not*
> be generating their own HTML except by using a template themselves.
>
> I have a start of coWiki using CSS. It's rather a pleasure to work with
> because the HTML is simpler but I'm not yet enough of a CSS guru to lay
> stuff out without constantly rechecking my work. :-)
>
> Paul
>
> lostwong at tigris dot org wrote:
>
> >http://cowiki.tigris​.org/issues/show_bug​.cgi?id=14
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------- Additional comments from lostwong at tigris dot org Thu Jul 28 09:25:08 -0700 2005 -------
> >Some possible benefits of using CSS:
> >
> >- graceful fallback to non-compliant/older-generation browsers
> >- should be easier to mantain cross-platform support
> >- possibly faster load times due to less code in the html and more of it in a
> >shared CSS stylesheet
> >- make it easier to create third party themes/templates for the wiki
> >
> >I've noticed that there's html formatting code throughout a lot of the plugins
> >and templates. To make a fully themable system may require some re-working of
> >how the templates and plugins are structured and how they interact.
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: [cowiki-issues] [Issue 14] (52) Get away from "table layout"

Author Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com>
Full name Paul Hanchett <paul dot hanchett at gmail dot com>
Date 2005-07-28 09:49:28 PDT
Message I've been looking at this. The biggest problem I see is that there is a
*lot* of stuff to convert. Generally speaking, all of our formatting is
done with the template files in the TPL directory. Plugins should *not*
be generating their own HTML except by using a template themselves.

I have a start of coWiki using CSS. It's rather a pleasure to work with
because the HTML is simpler but I'm not yet enough of a CSS guru to lay
stuff out without constantly rechecking my work. :-)

Paul

lostwong at tigris dot org wrote:

>http://cowiki.tigris​.org/issues/show_bug​.cgi?id=14
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------- Additional comments from lostwong at tigris dot org Thu Jul 28 09:25:08 -0700 2005 -------
>Some possible benefits of using CSS:
>
>- graceful fallback to non-compliant/older-generation browsers
>- should be easier to mantain cross-platform support
>- possibly faster load times due to less code in the html and more of it in a
>shared CSS stylesheet
>- make it easier to create third party themes/templates for the wiki
>
>I've noticed that there's html formatting code throughout a lot of the plugins
>and templates. To make a fully themable system may require some re-working of
>how the templates and plugins are structured and how they interact.
>
>
>

[Issue 14] (52) Get away from "table layout"

Author lostwong
Full name Kenneth Wong
Date 2005-07-28 09:25:08 PDT
Message http://cowiki.tigris​.org/issues/show_bug​.cgi?id=14






------- Additional comments from lostwong at tigris dot org Thu Jul 28 09:25:08 -0700 2005 -------
Some possible benefits of using CSS:

- graceful fallback to non-compliant/older-generation browsers
- should be easier to mantain cross-platform support
- possibly faster load times due to less code in the html and more of it in a
shared CSS stylesheet
- make it easier to create third party themes/templates for the wiki

I've noticed that there's html formatting code throughout a lot of the plugins
and templates. To make a fully themable system may require some re-working of
how the templates and plugins are structured and how they interact.
Messages per page: